POL POT'S INTERVIEW WITH
POL POT
Khmmer
Rouge: A Interview with Pol Pot Posted on June 3, 2012 Pol Pot’s
Interview with Yugoslav Journalists Phnom Penh home Service 2300 gmt 20
Mar 1978. Text of report of interview given on 17th March by the
Cambodian Premier, Pol Pot, to a visiting Yugoslav press delegation
{read by announcers]. At 0830 on 17th March 1978 at the state guest
house, Comrade Pol Pot, Secretary of the CPK Central Committee and
Premier of the Democratic Cambodian Government, received and answered
questions in an interview with the Yugoslav press delegation which is
now on a visit to Democratic Cambodia.
First of all, our
Comrade Party Secretary said to the journalists from the friendly
country: We are very pleased with the Yugoslav press delegation’s visit
to our country. The visit of our comrade Yugoslav journalists will
further strengthen the ties of friendship between our two peoples and
countries. Like our Democratic Cambodia, Yugoslavia is a non-aligned
country which has ad’aered to the position of preserving independence.
Friendship between our two countries is therefore based on the same
principle. We have always esteemed and respected Comrade President Tito
and the friendly Yugoslav people.
Comrade President Tito and
the Yugoslav people have always supported and helped us. We have
sympathy for them and wish to express our thanks to Comrade President
Tito and the friendly Yugoslav people. In 1950, i went to Yugoslavia to
work in a work unit in the Zagreb area. I have sympathy for President
Tito and the Yugoslav people. Comrades, you come to our country as
friends. Now we would like to answer your questions.
Question
One: Respected Comrade Pol Pot: Within a short lime you will celebrate
the third anniversary of your country’s liberation. Would you please,
therefore, tell us about the outstanding results of your work of
national construction and rehabilitation during the last three years.
Answer: We are pleased to answer your question as follows. For almost
three years, we have rehabilitated and built the country and have
achieved a fairly large number of good results. However, first of all,
we would like to tell you at the same time we still have a lot of work
to do. The first outstanding result is the fact that we have succeeded
in solving the agricultural problem particularly with regard to growing
rice. As we have succeeded in increasing the rice yield, we have enough
rice to feed our people ourselves. In 1976, we initiated a plan to
produce three tons of rice per hectare. We achieved 80 to 90% of this
production plan. This permitted us to solve the problem of the people’s
livelihood and still have rice available for export. In 1977, we planned
to produce three tons of rice per hectare on land growing one crop a
year and six tons of rice per hectare on land growing two crops a year.
We fulfilled nearly 100% of this plan. That is why our 1977 rice yield
has increased over that of 1976. As a result, our people’s riving
conditions have improved and we still have rice available for export.
Our slogan is: “When we have rice, we can have everything”. This is
because when the people have enough rice to satisfy their needs, we also
have rice for export and then we can import all the necessary
commodities. As I told you earlier, our successes in agriculture have
resulted from the fact that we have developed the basis for it –
irrigation systems. The existence of irrigation systems is an important
factor which can secure a high yield for rice and other farm products.
Along with the development of agriculture, there can also be development
in other fields. Industry, handicrafts, social action and culture can
develop and expand in accordance with our agricultural line. Another
outstanding success is the fact that we have eradicated malaria which
represented a danger to more than 80% of our population. In the past,
our people were affected by malaria each year and had difficult in
carrying out their work. Now, as we have solved more than 90% of the
malaria eradication problem our people’s health is far better than
before. Another outstanding result of our work is the fact that we have
succeeded in basically eradicating illiteracy which was a social disease
in the old society. It is true that in the old society there were some
universities and secondary and primary schools in large cities and
towns, but the majority of our people in the remote areas of our
countryside were illiterate. This problem has now been basically solved.
People can read and write. This is a foundation which enables the
people to gradually enhance their culture. It is not just one section of
our population which has the chance to study; in fact, all our people
now have the chance to study. We have adopted this foundation for lhe
development and advancement of our education. As for other results, they
are not so important. However, we wish to inform you that we have
organized our health system throughout the country, particularly in our
co-operatives. Each co-operative has an infirmary and a pharmaceutical
production centre. The pharmaceutical products are prepared in
accordance with national and popular methods. Through this effort, we
have succeeded in solving the people’s health problem to a large extent.
The conditions are now different from what they were before. In the
past, there were medical personnel only in Phnom Penh and other major
towns, but now members of the medical corps are stationed throughout the
country and in our co-operatives. Medical services are now available
even to people in remote areas. This medical service is only basic, but
on this basis we will gradually improve our medical capability. With
regard to handcrafts and small industrial workshops, we have not
achieved any significant or important results but we have set up
workshops everywhere. Every co-operative has its own handicraft shops
and workshops. This is the basis for the development of our handicrafts
and for thc gradual industrial development of our country. These are our
outstanding successes which were due to the efforts of our people who
are led by the CPK. The people have done all this by themselves; they
have seen the results and have taken pleasure in them.
Question Two: During our short stay in your beautiful country, we have
seen signs that your revolution is completely cut off from the past. So
what sort of a model for a society are you now trying to build upon?
Answer: We wish to inform you that we don’t have any model upon which
to build a new society. In the special national congress in late April
1975, we noted that the major role of carrying out the revolution and
the national liberation war had been taken by the workers and peasants
who made up the majority. They have been the ones who have shouldered
the heaviest responsibilities, so they must continue to reap the
revolutionary rewards. This has also been specified in the preamble of
our Constitution. We have the desire to build a prosperous and happy
Cambodian society in which all enjoy equality, happiness and a society
free from all class or individual forms of exploitation, in which
everyone strives to increase production and to defend the country. It is
on this basis that we are striving to build a new society. It is with
this aim that we are striving to build the present new society.
Therefore, the trend of our effort to build a new society is based on
the aspiration of the people, especially our workers and peasants who
represent the majority. The people have realized that this way of
building society is good and they will continue to carry on the work.
However, if they ever decide that this way is not good, they will stop
it. It is up to the people. Our experiences have proved that we are
entirely dependent upon the people in waging the revolution and the
national liberation war. If the people attempt a task, they will
certainly succeed, but if the people do not want to do something, we
cannot do anything in their place. For this reason, we would like to
point out to you that we do not have any preconceived model or pattern
of any kind for a new society. This means that we are working with the
aim of serving the people’s aspirations, as specified in the preamble of
our Constitution – the Constitution of our Democratic Cambodia.
Question Three: We have seen that in the current phase of your
revolution you have mobilized all national forces to develop
agriculture. But, do you have any plans for industrial development? And
if so, how are you going to train the cadres essential for this purpose?
As far as we know, you have no universities, colleges or technical
schools at present.
Answer: We have both the desire and a plan
to build our industry quickly. Using agriculture as our basis, we will
strive to develop our industry. It’s our view that in order to have an
independent economy, we must develop our agriculture, industry and other
sectors. Therefore, this is also our aim. However, where can we obtain
the necessary capital to build the industries? We must depend on
agriculture to create capital. For example, we now have trade relations
with our Yugoslav comrades. We export our farm products and import the
industrial goods we need for our agricultural sector and our industry as
well. At the same time, our principle is to train as many technical
cadres as possible as quickly as possible. Speaking of universities and
higher and secondary education as it existed in the past, it seems that
we have none. However, we are now developing our technical ranks at our
bases. In the co-operatives there are several types of workshops where
people are trained on the job. This sort of training is available in all
factories in Phnom Penh and in the provinces as well. In this way,
people work and are trained at the same time. Before liberation, there
were a number of graduates who had been educated in Phnom Penh, the
provinces or abroad. But, as far as concrete results are concerned,
these graduates could not serve the industrial or handicraft movements
as well as the- people of the present day. The technical cadres now
emerging from our bases enable our people to produce more. Using this
experience, we have trained technical cadres in our bases and have
gradually increased their technical ability. They do practical work and
gain practical experience; and if they make mistakes, they can correct
them and thus improve their knowledge. ! have learned that many of you
comrade journalists are familiar with Cambodia and visited here several
times before liberation. During that period there were only a few
Cambodian technicians; they were outnumbered by the foreign technicians
then. That is why we are now striving essentially to train Cambodian
technicians. To cite some concrete results, many years were spent on the
construction of a hydrological project on the Stoeng Prek Tnot, but
nothing was achieved. In 1976- 77, however, we succeeded in building
five dams on the Stoeng Prek Tnot. By doing practical work, we gain
practical experience. We believe that if we wait any longer, we shall
never be able to give timely support to the production movement and we
shall never be able to solve the problems of the people’s livelihood. 1
could cite other examples. In fact, we are now capable of building our
own rice husking machines, pumps with engines, rice-threshers, and other
kinds of engines. We make some of this mechanical equipment completely
by ourselves; we have adapted other imported machines for bur own
purposes. In the past, this was not possible; everything was imported.
In brief, we have considered industrial matters and the training of
technicians. In the future, we will know how much we can improve the
quality of our indigenous technicians. Meanwhile, however, we will
follow the principle of working and learning at the same time, for all
concerned will learn in this process. We also plan to send our
technicians to friendly countries for training at seminars in order to
develop their technological knowledge. They will attend such seminars
only in friendly countries.
Question four: we have witnessed
that your cities are deserted today. Can you explain the aim of this
operation? Why have you abolished the role of money, the system of
monthly wages, and the trade network? Is this a temporary trend in the
social changes and revolutionary transformations in your society, or is
it a model society that you.are trying to create on a long term basis?
Answer: There are many reasons for the evacuation of inhabitants from
Phnom Penh and other cities. First, there is the economic consideration –
the question of providing food for millions or hundreds of thousands of
people in each city. When we examined this problem, we saw that it was
beyond our capability. It would be • impossible for us to feed so many
millions of townspeople. To take these people to the countryside and
relocate them in co-operatives would be a good solution, as the
co-operatives had rice fields and other means of production at their
disposal. We have co-operatives which are willing to have the
townspeople live and work with them. The co-operatives own cattle,
buffaloes and all other means of production in common. Our strength is
ill the countryside;our weakness is in the cities. Therefore, we came to
the conclusion that we had to ask the people to go and live in the
countryside in order to solve the food problem. If would could solve the
problem of food supplies, tile people would gain confidence in us.
Staying in the cities meant starvation. A hungry people would not
believe in the revolution. This is the economic reason. However, in
addition to the economic reason, there was also the problem of defending
the country and maintaining national security. Before liberation, we
learned about the plan of US imperialism and its lackeys. The latter
cooked up a plan in preparation for their defeat. According to this
plan, after our victory and our entry in Phnom Penh, they would agitate
(Cambodian: kraluk) against us inside the capital in all fields –
economic, military and political – in an attempt to overthrow our
revolution. Therefore, taking this situation into consideration, we
decided to evacuate the people from the cities and relocate them in the
rural co-operatives so that we could solve the food problem and become
the first to smash the US imperialist plan, preventing them from
attacking us when we entered Phnom Penh. Thus, this action was not
preplanned. It was the realization that a food shortage was imminent and
that there was a need to solve the problem of food for the people, as
well as the realization that there was a plan by US lackeys to attack
us, that prompted us to evacuate the cities. As for the question of
money, the role of money, salaries and the commercial system, it can be
explained as follows: In 1970-71 we managed to liberate 75 to 80% of the
country. During that period we had our political and military power.
However, we did not wield any economic power. The economy was in the
hands of the landlords and the capitalists. These people received
everything that was produced, because they had the money to do so. We
decided that in the liberated zone the people should sell their rice to
the revolutionary administration at the rate of 30 riels per 12/kg
bushel. However, the landlords and merchants offered from 100 to 200
riels for each 12/kg bushel of rice and resold it to Lon Nol. At that
time we had nothing. The people suffered badly from a shortage of food.
So did the army. As a result, the national liberation war was badly
affected. After examining this situation, we decided to organize and set
up co-operatives, so that these co-operatives of the collective masses
could control the economy and production in the countryside and
distribute what was produced within co-operatives, among co-operatives
from co-operatives to the State and from the State to the co-operatives.
In this way, we could control agricultural production and solve the
problem of livelihood for the people. The people, in turn, could offer
their sons and daughters for service in the army for the attack against
the enemy. As the co-operatives started providing support for each other
and bartering their produce with each other, the role of money became
increasingly less important. In 1972 the role of money was fading out.
In 1973, money lost much of its importance. In 1974, it became
non-existent in 80% of the liberated zone. Immediately before
liberation, only the State spent money in purchasing goods outside the
liberated zone for the support of the liberated zone under its control.
With such experience, we asked the mass opinion on the matter and were
told that money was useless as everything was traded on a barter system
within the co-operatives. Therefore, in the liberated zone at the time –
which represented more than 90% of the territory and was inhabited by
almost 6,000,000 people – we completely ;olved this problem. When the
people left the cities they all received the support )f the
co-operatives. Therefore we have ceased to use money up to the present.
What will happen in this respect in the future? It is up to the people,
if the people want to use money again, we will use money again, if they
see that is it not necessary, it is up to them. Therefore, the future
will be decided on the basis of practicality. This is why we told you
that we do not have a blueprint or a readymade model. It all depends on
the experience of the revolutionary mass movement. We will learn from
this experience while it is being implemented. The suspension of the
wage system also has its precedent. In the successive revolutionary
movements and particularly during the national liberation war, neither
our cadres nor combatants received wages, nor did our people. Before
liberation, when we controlled 90% of the country, about 6,000,000
people were accustomed to this practice. In other words, our cadres,
combatants and about 6,000,000 of our people did not receive any pay.
This became a tradition. Moreover, the truth is that in the past the
majority of the people received no wage at all; only functionaries did.
Thus, having got used to this, the people who left Phnom Penh went
straight into the co-operatives while the local cadres, army cadres,
army combatants or workers were treated the same as they were during the
war. We hold that we must avoid causing any burden to the people and
keep money mainly for financing national construction and defence
efforts. And the future? The future is completely up to the actual
situation of the time and the will of the people. The commercial network
is under the control of the State and the co-operatives which work
together. The State collects the produce of the co-operatives and
distributes it inside the country or exports it, and the State imports
goods to be distributed throughout the country. This is the method which
has been implemented so far. This method is also one of our wartime
traditions. The future also depends on the actual situation. That is to
say, we do not take the present system as a permanent one. Neither is it
a transitional one. We have been practising this method in accordance
with the actual situation. In the future, we will also stick to the
actual situation. The determining factor is the people.
Question Five: As we see it, Democratic Cambodia is having problems and
all kinds of difficulties with its neighbour. What is your opinion? How
can you solve and overcome all these problems and difficulties?
Answer: Like all other newly liberated countries. Democratic Cambodia
is experiencing difficulties. This is a normal situation. Historically
speaking, to our knowledge, the difficulties being experienced by our
Democratic Cambodia are not as serious as those of several other newly
liberated countries. Of course, Democratic Cambodia certainly has
difficulties. The main difficulty arises from the fact that we have been
adhering to the position of being independent and taking our destiny
into our own hands. This has frustrated some countries and annoyed the
expansionists and imperialists. However, it is our opinion that
upholding the position of independence and self-reliance can cause
difficulties. But these difficulties are no worse than those that
Cambodia and the Cambodian people would have experienced if they had
become other people’s slave, in which case there would no longer be a
Cambodian nation and Cambodian people. Therefore, we are ready to
preserve the position of independence, sovereignty, territorial
integrity, non-alignment and self-determination forever, no matter how
many obstacles we have to fight and overcome. As for the question of how
to solve these difficulties, it depends on both our side and the side
of those opposing us. We have successively tried to solve this issue
through negotiations. Right after liberation, in June 1975 we – myself
and a number of other leading comrades – went to Hanoi. We were willing
to go there and express our good w~ll to settle our long-standing
problems. Many problems were discussed. The border issue was among these
problems. We held that Cambodia wanted nothing more than to live in
peace and we asked that the frontier, which in 1966-67 the Vietnamese
side solemnly recognized and promised to respect, be the boundary
between the two countries in an attempt to preserve, strengthen and
expand the friendship between our nations and peoples. We did not
reclaim our territory. We did not ask for the return of any of our
former territories, islands or even one square inch of land. Still, they
did not even talk to us. They did not deal with this issue, because
they had the greater ambition of annexing the whole of Cambodia in the
form of an Indochinese federation in which their people would be settled
in Cambodia by the thousands and millions each year so that within 30
years or more the Cambodian people would be turned into a minority. This
situation was clear. In May 1976, we invited them for talks in Phnom
Penh. They were reluctant to come. When they did come, they told us that
it was because we insisted. During the talks they rejected the frontier
that they had recognized and promised to respect in 1966-67. They said
that in 1966 they had agreed with Cambodia on this point, because at
that time they had been compelled to fight US imperialism. Therefore, it
was a deception. Furthermore, they proposed a new border demarcation
which took away a vast part of our territorial waters. We saw this as
sheer expansionism. No hint of friendship could be detected. They
thought that they could put pressure on us because ours was a small
country. We did not comply. The talks were therefore a failure. At the
same time, they continued to use military forces to attack us in the
border region in an attempt to coerce us into capitulating. Again, we
did not comply. How can we agree with them. It is unacceptable for us to
become a slave of the Vietnamese after making allout efforts to fight
the imperialists and their lackeys. It is unacceptable to our people and
our army. How then will we proceed to solve this issue? We are solving
it in accordance with the actual situation. If they truly respect our
sovereignty and independence, if they have true friendship, there is no
difficulty in solving it. it can be solved immediately. However, if they
persist in taking Cambodia, we will have to adopt a position for the
defence of our independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity.
However, it is our opinion that these difficulties will be solved
gradually. First, we will have to safeguard our independence,
sovereignty and territorial integrity at all costs. In order to succeed
in this endeavour, the entire people must be united, strive to maximize
production and improve their living standard. Also, we must export more
to secure more capital to finance national construction and defence. At
the same time, we hold that friends of Democratic Cambodia all over the
world are standing on the side of our country and that the number of
these friends is steadily growing. We hold that many countries cherish
independence and that some of them - Yugoslavia, to cite just one
example – have a firm stand for independence. These independence-minded
countries can see who is right and who is wrong, who wants peace and
friendship and who is expansionist and aggressive. The independence, and
justice-loving countries have seen this more and more clearly. The
trend, as we feel it, is becoming more and more favourable to us.
Therefore, those who have been committing expansionism and aggression
against us should realize, also gradually, that they can no longer carry
out aggression, expansionism and annexation against Cambodia. Only then
will we be able to solve the problem. Nevertheless, we have to continue
to cope with the prevailing situation.
Question Six: Many
articles have been written throughout the world with or without reason,
to the effect that your country is too insular. Are you considering
making it more open to the world? If so, what principle and direction
will you follow?
Answer: Since our liberation, we have gained
one friend after another. After liberation, there were many problems to
be solved, such as rehabilitating the country and improving the people’s
livelihood. This is called putting one’s house in order,
re-establishing order inside the country. While we were carrying out
these tasks, we were honoured by the successive visits of our friends.
We hold that, in the future, a steadily increasing number of friends
will call on us. There were some in 1975; more Visited us in 1976; still
more in 1977; and more will visit us in 1978. In the years to come, an
increasing number of friends will visit us. We are opening up to you,
inviting you to visit us, to come to our country. We expect that more
friends will be invited to come and see us, and that friendship will be
further strengthened and expanded with all these friendly peoples and
countries. Regarding the personages and various organizations showing
friendship with and justice to Cambodia, we have invited and will invite
more of them to visit our country, in our opinion, the trend is that
more and more friends will come and visit us. Nevertheless, it is
imperative for us to prepare our house and put it in order to the best
of our ability in order to receive our friends. As you can observe
during your journey, the war brought much destruction to our country.
Many who did not know Phnom Penh before and during the war, thought that
Phnom Penh had been spared. Immediately after liberation, Phnom Penh
did not look the way it does now. It was extremely filthy and was
encumbered with networks of barracks and rolls of barbed wire. Now, we
have removed, dismantled and cleaned up all this.
Question
Seven: The relations between Democratic Cambodia and socialist
Yugoslavia are manifested in friendship and co-operation. What
possibility do you see in speeding up and expanding this co-operation
between our two friendly countries?
Answer: Democratic
Cambodia and Yugoslavia are friendly countries with a nonaligned
political base and adhering to a policy of independence. On this basis,
we entertain excellent bonds of friendship with each other in order to
strengthen and expand all-round relations. Relations in various fields
are improving in accordance with the possibilities of our two countries.
On Cambodia’s part, we are striving to build our nation and maximize
production so as to diversify trade with Yugoslavia. Today, we still
cannot meet our Yugoslav friends’ demands for commercial and
agricultural products. For instance, taking rubber as an example, we can
produce it in reasonable quantities but the quality is not yet up to
standard. Therefore, we will make every effort to improve the quality of
our products in order to increase our trade. Regarding other fields, we
will continue to maintain our relations in order to cooperate with each
other as much as possible. It is our opinion that the trend in this
co-operation is excellent, because it is based not only on economic or
commercial exchanges but also on good political and friendly relations.
Question Eight: When we return to our country, we will present to our
readers and TV audience the successful outcome and the questions to
which Democratic Cambodia is devoting its prime attention, as well as
the portraits of the leaders of this friendly non-aligned country.
Therefore, let us ask you this last question: Comrade Pol Pot,
who are you? What is the past of the Comrade Secretary of the Central
Committee of the Cambodian Communist Party?
Answer: We would
like to say that we are glad to answer this question. But, first let me
tell you that ! myself, as well as the other leading comrades, are just a
tiny part of the Cambodian national movement and Cambodian people’s
revolutionary movement. The history of my life is as follows: I am the
son of a peasant. When ! was young, I helped my parents in their labour.
Later on, I stayed in a monastery, as was our custom, to receive an
education. I lived there for six years, two years of which I spent in
the monkhood. You are the first to know some of the details of my life.
When 1 was older, I attended a primary school of general education. I
completed the course at this school but failed to go on to a secondary
school, as i did not sit the entrance examination. At that time, in
order to attend a secondary school, you had to sit an examination. I
therefore returned home and helped my parents till the land. Later 1
entered secondary school ;~nd finished the primary grade, i then
switched to a secondary electrotechnical school where I studied for only
just over a year. I studied many technical subjects, especially
electricity. After obtaining a scholarship, I went abroad to study, l
went to France. The first year there I made great efforts and became a
fairly good student. Later, I joined the progressive student movement.
As I spent most of the time on struggle activities, I did not attend
many of the classes at school. I attended the technical school less
during the last two years. The state then cut short my scholarship, and I
was forced to return home, where I secretly joined the struggle
movement in Phnom Penh. Afterwards, l joined the maquis against French
colonialism. After the 1954 Geneva Agreement was signed I returned to
the capital and resumed my underground activities. In public, I worked
as a lecturer in geography, history and morals in a private school. The
sphere of my underground work covered students, intellectuals, workers
and peasants. In 1963, I could no longer stay in Phnom Penh. l again
went into the maquis. This is why my name was not well known. Even Lon
Nol’s secret service, which kept following me and knew my name, had no
idea of my position. When I was in Phnom Penh, I was in charge of our
work in the capital and also of co-ordinating it with that in the
countryside. Thus, after leaving the capital in 1963, I returned to
Phnom Penh on 24th April 1975. In 1960, at the national Party congress, I
was elected to the Central Committee of the Party and as a standing
member of the Central Committee. l became the Deputy Secretary of the
Party Central Committee in 1961. Our Comrade Secretary was assassinated
by the enemy in 1962. I was then appointed Acting Secretary. The second
Party Congress was held in 1963. It elected me Secretary and subsequent
congresses also retained me in this position. In the countryside I
stayed mainly in the most remote areas. I travelled far and wide
throughout the country. All these years in the resistance helped me to
familarize myself not only with the Cambodian countryside, but also with
the country’s entire economy, geography and topography. Our base area
was in the minority region of north-eastern Cambodia. These minorities
are quite familiar to me. They were extremely poor and had only
loincloths. They experienced a shortage of salt every year. blow you
cannot recognize them as minority people. They are wearing the same
clothes and living in the same way as the rest of the people. They have
plenty of rice, salt and medicine. Most of all, I want to tell you about
my life in 1950 when l was a student abroad. During that summer
vacation, I spent more than one month working on the Zagreb motorway. ]
was able to learn about the Yugoslav people and, especially, Yugoslav
folklore. Therefore, you can see that we have a longstanding bond of
friendship and our relations of friendship were established years ago.
This is all I have to tell you. Comrade Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge’s
ideas are presented by Open Revolt for discussion and should not be
considered a blanket endorsement (obviously.)
